Yes - Get a buyer's agent. The seller is paying the commission.
You are in a stronger negotiing position. You can go back and forth with your agent discuss the pro's and cons and hammer out your terms. Then they get delivered to the buyers agent without all the parenthetical information and without tipping your hand. When buyers and sellers work directly together, first of all it gets personal and then it goes bad. Lot's of times one side or the other "flips out" and then cools down. The agents can buffer this and keep things on track. Your agent will know what is customary, and keep them from dogging you with a lot of costs. Real Estate agents send a lot of time working on deal, and at least for me, I sweat the details. I read the title commitment. I look at the survey and go to the property and match it up. I make sure your mortgage broker isn't working you over. I read the inspection report. I print out the closing statement of some giant paper and check all those numbers.

Firefly4164,
There are a number of "Mom and Pop" shops in the boroughs that are not required to co-broke. While it is generally in your best interests to have your own buyer's agent, if the listing is with one of these dinosaur companies and you don't want to lose it, in this case I would say to go for it. If you want to bring in your buyer's agent on a transaction where the listing agent won't co-broke, you will need to pay your agent their customary percent yourself.

Best,
Jenet Levy
Halstead Property, LLC
jlevy@halstead.com
212 381-4268
http://jenetlevy.halstead.com

Firefly,

I would listen to everything Mitchell Hall had to say, as his answer was most complete and thorough.

No offense to anyone who submitted their input, but if Firefly listens to 95% of recommendations, he/she will lose out on what they already know to be a good purchase. They live in the area, they know the building, they did the research, they know the price, they know how much they want to offer and the broker isn’t co-broking. In this situation, if Firefly is to hire a buyer’s broker, they will be required to pay a commission fee. Once again in this specific situation, this probably doesn’t make financial sense.

What I would suggest is to ask the agent to represent you as the buyer in a duel agency (assuming seller agrees to this), even if they don’t and nothing is signed, you can still go ahead and proceed cautiously with this purchase. Another suggestion, if you show doubt or worry is to hire an agent as a consultant. By doing this, you can agree on a different fee.

For agents in New York that keep on stressing REBNY, please understand that once you go outside of Manhattan, like Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island, Bronx, Long Island, a very large number of firms belong to NAR, MLS or none of the above. Only in Manhattan will you see over 90% of firms affiliated with REBNY.

Regarding pocket listings, unethical behavior, non-exclusive listings, I hope someone with legal background can chime in. A broker, hired by the client (aka anyone who pays their commission), works for them and in their interest. This means, that if the seller has certain guidelines, the broker has to follow them. An example would be, not to advertise to anyone outside of their own brokerage, period…

On that note, Firefly, I fish you best of luck. You seem to know what you are doing, you have the information, you’ve done your homework and if you believe that this is a great buy, don’t let others discourage you and risk losing out.

Best of luck.
Alen Moshkovich
Prudential Douglas Elliman
(o): (212)418-2066
(c): (347)277-9304
AMoshkovich@elliman.com

Firefly4164,

After a few phone calls, I would like to clarify something... when I gave my answer to this question yesterday, I was under the assumption that the Seller's Broker/Agent was a member of REBNY, the Real Estate Board Of New York. Each year, member agencies sign an agreement that basically states they will co-broke their listings, between Seller's and Buyer's Agents. Being that the vast majority of my work takes place in Manhattan, and with REBNY member agents, I answered the question according to the REBNY protocol.

My best advice is to find out if the Seller's Agent/Broker, or the firm they work for, is a member of REBNY. You can do this by getting their name, and the name of their company, and either look it up on the REBNY website. If you find out that they are a REBNY member, then you would definitely want to have your own Buyer's Agent who is a REBNY member as well. In this way, the agent representing you would have the ability to protect you, and make sure that the Seller's Agent is abiding by the rules set forth in the REBNY agreement they signed.

I hope this helps clarify things,
Lindsey Newman
Senior Real Estate Sales Associate

It really is best to use the services of an agent to represent your interests. If the listing agent is saying that they dont co-broke than they are operating contrary to REBNY (Real Estate Board of New York) and other state regulations entitling you to fair representation. I would be skeptical of any agent operating in this manner. You may also want to discuss the matter with that agent's employing broker (the agency for whom they work). You could always use a real estate attorney to represent you but for the purposes of making an offer an agent is probably better suited. Since you as a buyer are not paying the commission it should not matter as it is theoretically not costing you more. Is the agent from a reputable agency, is the agent's agency a member of REBNY? All of this is relevant but you should not allow yourself to be denied the representation that is your right.

Dear Firefly,


I believe a buyer negotiating with a seller with representation is in disadvantage. And a seller with an agent that does not split commission is also in disadvantage by not having his property exposed in a wider market.

You do not need to have representation. However, do not forget that the listing's agent represents the seller and works in his best interest.

Yes, you can hire a real estate attorney to take care of the due diligence and be with you at the closing process, but he won't negotiate in your behalf.

I hope this information will help you!

Laura Thierer
Licensed Real Estate Salesperson
c: 914-426-0075

Personally, I take great exception to the comment about some so-called "industry co-broke standard." There is no such thing as it simply doesn't exist, full stop. The Real Estate Board of New York requires it's members to give an even split of a commission in a co-broke transaction but that is hardly an "Industry standard." The Queens and Long Island board (LIBOR) does not require an even split. This one comment has implications for the entire brokerage community. Firefly, I suggest you steer clear of any agent who claims this to be so.

One thing more. This listing broker is required by NY State law upon first substantial contact to have you sign off a NY State disclosure form. It's not a contract but it defines your relationship with this broker and exactly who she represents (not you). If this wasn't done she is in breach of the law.

Firefly4164,

What you are saying by that the Seller's Agent will not cobroke is known in the industry as a pocket listing. This is not only unethical, but it is also illegal. My best advice to you as a buyer would be to send the owner a letter letting them know that their broker refuses to submit offers made via a Buyer's Agent, and is engaged in an illegal act by New York State Law. Furthermore, I would definitely not negotiate directly with this unscrupulous Seller's Agent, and make sure that you do in fact have your own representation in the form of a Buyer's Agent. Your Buyer's Agent should be able to influence the Seller's Agent's Brokerage to do the right thing as far as the law is concerned.

If I can be of any service to you, I am a dedicated Buyer's Agent with years of experience.... I am happy to help.

Sincerely,
Lindsey Newman
Senior Real Estate Sales Associate

Thank you everyone for your replies. I should add that this condo is in Astoria, Queens, in an older building. I know the area well as I live practically next door to the building this condo is in. I have done a lot of research and know what other 1 bedrooms in this building and surrounding area have sold for in the past year, so I know how much I want to offer, and what my max # is.

The seller's agent will not co-broke this apartment, so my option is to either proceed without a buyer's agent, or wait until another similar apartment at this price comes along. There are very few available at this price, and I feel it is a great deal compared to everything else I've seen.

Firefly

Its possible this is an Open Listing ( Seller has given some Agents a 3% commission instead of the industry co-broke standard of 5/6%) and the Seller allowed this particular Agent to advertise it. As your Buyer Broker knows her name she can find out if she is a Member of the REBNY. If she is, by law she has to co-broke an exclusive but if its not an Exclusive she can certainly advertise and market it on Craigslist but not as the Listing Agent.

You can go ahead and make an Offer - hopefully if shes not the Sellers Agent she herself can help you with Comps and the Condo board application process and Lenders etc. It will be her responsibility to guide you and service you as she now represents your interests. Make sure you negotiate hard.

Good Luck!

Hi Firefly. What the listing agent has is probably a sponsor unit, hence she doesn't want to split the commission. Condos are not specifically hard to purchase but you will need to deal with the application package which requires a lot of disclosure that you just have to comply with. Of course you might want to have an idea of pricing and vauation in whatever building you intend to buy into. How will you get that yourself? It's not difficult, you just need to know where to look.

Surely you must know someone, or know someone who knows someone in real estate. Bounce some question off them. Ask them how to prepare an offer. Your Attorney will do all their due diligence regarding the building, etc. prior to any contract being signed. Whatever you decide, Good luck.

Why I would turn down a FREE service to protect my interests in a rel estate transaction behooves me. DId you know that 40% of buyers choose to go it alone?

I personally, even if I was not a real estate broker, would never go unproptected. Especially since Manhattan real estate is such a complicated animal, I would want to make that I have someone being my gate keeper.

Read this article on specifics of what Manhattan real estate brokers do that can help you--for FREE.

http://www.buyandsellmanhattan.com/how-to-manhattan-apts/don…

I am including another article for you on "How to Buy an Apartment in Manhattan and Get the Best Interest Rate"

http://www.buyandsellmanhattan.com/how-to-manhattan-apts/how…

Jennifer Chiongbian
SVP/ Associate Broker
Rutenberg Realty NYC
9172502284

Have your agent write up an offer including their commision.

Worst case, you can always pay the commision out of pocket to your agent, who should save you money & time, as well as offer expertise in the area you are purchasing.

Well worth it.

Was this answer helpful? Give it a "thumbs up" if so!

The Marie Souza Team - Top Selling on Cape Cod
Cape Cod Real Estate Services
Phone: 508-790-2000
info@mariesouzateam.com
http://www.MarieSouzaTeam.com

Dear Firefly,

I agree with Mitchell and Armen.

Any broker who doesn't co-broke is not only foolish, but they could lose a perfectly qualified buyer.

While you might be a good negotiator if you are not a broker, you may have difficulties on negotiating certain things. And even though condo board packages (if it gets that far with the seller's broker) are easier than coop board packages (the condo only has to waive the right of first refusal) -- you still want to make sure your package is correct. That said if you really must have this apartment, make the offer on your own rather than have a dual agency situation.

Whether or not the seller may have negotiated a compensation that doesn't easily allow sharing it with another Agent, the seller's agent should not be thinking so much about their commission, as much as finding their seller the right buyer. If the seller's agent is trying to be a dual agent, read what Mitchell Hall wrote about dual agency.

Your real estate attorney can only help with legalities but cannot negotiate or make the offer on your behalf. And when choosing a real estate attorney do make sure you have one who practices real estate in New York and who works with condos.

Good luck. If you have any quesitons or if I can be of assistance to you please don't hesitate to contact me.

Ross Ellis
Licensed Real Estate Salesperson
Member of Real Estate Board of New York
Halstead Property, LLC
212.317.7828 direct
646.472.7875 confidential fax
770 Lexington Avenue, 10th Floor
New York, NY 10065
rellis@halstead.com

Hi, you can go through the listing agent but keep in min that agent represents the seller and their best interest at all times. You should definitely have an attorney representing you as well.

The fact that the sellers agent doesn't co-broke is really a disservice to the seller because it limits the amount of people that will show the unit. Unless of course the buyers agents get compensation from the buyer.

There might be a factor complicating this transaction.
The Owner may have negotiated a compensation that doesn't easily allow sharing it with another Agent.
That does not mean you should go unrepresented.
There is too much to loose.

I have found that when an owner is Uber cost conscious, then getting a fair price might be difficult.
Have your new Buyers Agent look around for you.
There is a lot of inventory out there!

Hello,

A Buyer's Broker has due diligence to work and negotiate in your best interest. The Listing Agent works (is supposed to) in the Seller best interested, not yours.
An Attorney does not negotiate......
I wish you the best in this, but please be careful.

Firefly,

I agree with Armen. Only a weak buyer's agent would let a listing agent who doesn't co-broke stop him from showing you and making an offer on your behalf. Her deal with the seller is between her and her seller.

While she doesn't have to co-broke, an offer from a buyer can include any terms including their buyer broker's fee. The seller accepts or declines the offer not their agent. She is required by law to submit all offers. Most sellers want to sell. Most sellers will pay for a ready willing and able buyer.

Unfortunately a seller in this day and age that agrees to hire a broker that doesn't co-broke is not a smart seller. However, It may actually work to your advantage because the pool of buyers will be limited. She doesn't co-broke and she goes on vacation. It doesn't sound like she is trying to sell the apartment. You may be their only offer.

Unfortunately, attorney's take care of due diligence, contracts and closings they don't negotiate price and terms. Brokers do that.

If you must have this apartment and you didn't sign an exclusive buyer's broker agreement, if you think you can negotiate and represent your own interest you can try. I don't recommend it. Make sure she discusses and has you sign agency disclosure. You have a choice of dual agency she represents you and seller or you are an unrepresented buyer. In my opinion unrepresented buyer is better than dual agency. You don't want her to represent you and the seller.

There is a good chance with this listing agent you will never get to the closing table.

Feel free to contact me if you need more information or any help.

Mitchell Hall, Associate Broker
The Corcoran Group
917-312-0924
mhall@corcoran.com

If the selling broker is not a member of REBNY (The Real Estate Board of NY), then she is under no obligation to co-broke the sale of the unit with your broker. Members of REBNY, which is the majority of brokers in Manhattan including all the major firms, mandate that if the buyer wants to use a buyers broker then the selling broker must honor that arrangement and split the commission. Though it is preferable to have a buyers broker, this is a rare case of a selling broker not willing to split the commission with another broker. Therefore, you have to go directly through that selling broker which is unfortunate. that is, if you want the apartment.

I would NEVER EVER enter into a real estate transaction WITHOUT my OWN REPRESENTATION! It would be a foolish choice!!
Good Luck,
Christopher Stokes Moseley
Senior Executive Vice President
Licensed Real Estate Associate Broker
RUTENBERG REALTY
212-203-8722 mobile office
Cmoseley@crrnyc.com

The buyer broker you hired should have answered all your questions by now. Also part of REPRESENTING you is not taking NO from a broker representing the Seller.

Get an experienced team of a broker, an attorney and a loan rep behind you and you will get a deal done.

Using a buyers broker is beneficial because they are acting in your interests; not the sellers. They are responsible for negotiating the best deal on your behalf and making sure there are no issues such as open violations. But using a buyers agent is not required and is at your discretion.

Have you secured financing for this condo? If you haven't I would be happy to help you. You can reach me directly at (347) 242-1206.

The seller's agent is not representing your best interests.

An attorney does not negotiate.

It is unfortunate for the seller who now has very limited exposure to a deal; I wonder if the seller knows the agent will not co-broke.

Be very careful.

It is always good to use a broker to help you with negotiations, at best to get you the comps so you can get a good price for the apartment. The broker will also help you to work on the board package, basically guide you through the entire process. However, if the seller's agent is not co-broking, you would have to be responsible for your agent's fee for the service provided. Hope that helps. Best of luck.

Warmest regards,

Zita Alvarez Lo
Licensed Associate Real Estate Broker
Bus 212-350-2825
Cell 917-656-8112

PRUDENTIAL DOUGLAS ELLIMAN
205 East 42nd Street, 6th floor
New York, NY 10017

The listing agent is required by NYS law to give you an Agency Disclosure form. This form, which you will have to sign, explains who represents you in the transaction.
The listing agent must allow you to have representation, if that's your decision. And you would state the name of the agent you choose to represent you on the Agency Disclosure form.
Feel free to contact me with any further questions you may have.

Regards,

Marilyn Mayers
Lic. Assoc. RE Broker, Sr. VP
Halstead Propert LLC
212.381.3211